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Maybe you have put your energy into all this….
You started with self-help books
-You’ve likely read good books that deal with the symptoms…Verbal Abuse, Personality types, ACOA [Janet Woititz], Toxic people, Road Less Traveled….
-And, those books often say “What IS”….rather than “HOW TO” fix the bigger CAUSE of those surface symptoms.
-No…what the Narc does to you…or rather…what you “allow” them to do to you…is more about your “response” to the Narc’s pathology.
-But in the meantime, a traditional counselor may give you tools to “cope”…eh…I need to learn how to cope? Is that my purpose in life? Tolerate the Narc?
-I need/want something MORE…but I don’t know what it is….
Is there a narcissist behind verbal abuse?
How to find a counselor who knows about the Narc?
Traditional counseling will tell you to reading about “personality types”.
-The problem is NOT…that I need to “learn how to accept different personalities”.
-For TOO long, people have used “Its my personality type” as an excuse for their behavior,
*“We’re just different, and you have to accept other people.”
*“This is just the way I am, and I cant help myself, I cant change.”
*Just “be nice.” “Nice” is a DISEASE. [In other words, “give me your power.”]
There’s LOTS of theory about personality types.
Personality types were determined by bile?
-Hippocrates had theories about illness, with reference to bodily fluids [humors]: blood, phlegm, yellow bile, and black bile.
-Galen further developed the “humors” idea in illness, and related them to behavioral traits and mental dispositions.
-It’s a bit odd…in this article…..
-Galen had used the word “temperament” in reference to “bodily fluids” AND “behavioral/emotional symptoms”. These days, the word “temperament” is used to represent only the “behavioral/emotional symptoms” in the 4 personality types: Choleric, Melancholic, Phlegmatic, Sanguine...but still, the original concept was based on "bile".
The 4 temperaments are:
*Sanguine = enthusiastic, active,
and social
*Choleric = short tempered, fast,
and irritable
*Melancholic = analytical, wise,
and quiet
*Phlegmatic = relaxed, peaceful
Articles
-Four temperaments [wikipedia]
Myers-Briggs and the 4 personality types, and the “We’re just different” argument.
-Have you heard that? Some say, “We have different personalities, therefore, you have to accept what I’m saying/doing….we’re just different.”
-Wow. So, based on a “personality type”….a person has rights over you? I didn’t know that.
-Yes, we might have a “bent” to fit into one main personality type, but, how you behave depends on who you are with, what you say, and what you do.
-Myers-Briggs developed the MBTI, based on Carl Jung’s works, where “how you see the world“ is put into 4 “psychological functions”; sensation, intuition, feeling, and thinking.
-The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator handbook was published in 1944….but, it’s a bit confusing.
Articles
-The Truth About Myers-Briggs Types [Psychology Today]
-The Huge Frustration of Personality Tests [Christine Hammond, MS, LMHC, Psychcentral]
[Notice her quote at the bottom of the article...]
“This is the part I hate about personality tests. They offer a limited and sometimes inaccurate perspective, especially when a person has a personality disorder. The very thing a test should be utilized for – Is there a personality disorder or not – is the very issue that is not addressed.”
-Goodbye to MBTI, the Fad That Won’t Die [Adam Grant Ph.D.]
In 1978, David Keirsey further divided the 16 personality types into 4 categories; Guardians, Artisans, Rationals, and Idealists, in his book, Please Understand Me.
When the “Four Temperament Profiles” and the “MBTI” are blended, then it gets even more confusing.
The DISC theory of personality types, by William Marston 1920.
What is DISC? Martson made 4 categories for “predictable actions” and personality traits [Eh…further based on Myers-Briggs or Keirsey?], named Drive, Compliance, Influence, Steadiness.
Articles
Articles
Notice in the second paragraph,
“To effectively use the DISC model, remember that nothing in the DISC model describes or discusses any type of psychosis, mental illness, or psychological abnormality.”
Scroll down to the header “How to hire an ideal employee? Different types of personalities in companies!”, and at the next sub-header, “The Narcissist”,
“Never hire the Narcissist. Most companies regard Narcissists as dangerous professionals. Robert Hogan, the president of Hogan Systems states that narcissists have the wit to manipulate others in the workplace. The professionals would spead a wave of self confidence and appear charismatic. Moreover, the narcissists would not learn from their mistakes. They would act as psychopaths and ruin the company’s peace. Nevertheless, bear in mind that narcissists would look beautiful during the interview.”
So, which is the right test? Myers Briggs, Keirsey or DISC?
Here, they say DISC is a preferred business tool…eh…which would further “disqualify” Myers Briggs...
Maybe this is more “telling” about the personality types...
Near the end, just under the last picture...
“The personality and psychometric assessments are in my opinion indicative at best, and a complete waste of time at worst.”
The “Social Style” model
The Social Style theory began around 1964, as a model that could predict success in one’s career, with Assertiveness VS Responsiveness, and Emoting VS Controlling.
Basically, if a person enjoys controlling others [in a negative way] then they are not a psychopath…but just a “Task/Tell”.
Articles
-Social Style Model Overview [Tracom Group]
...different from WHAT? Myers-Briggs? David Keirsey? DISC? The “social style” seems like a “socially acceptable label” that the psychopath can use to explain their behavior and tactics.
“people prefer SOCIAL STYLE to other interpersonal skills options such as Myers-Briggs or DiSC”.
They say….
“Social style is not good or bad, just different.”
And again, like DISC…they say NOTHING about the Empath VS psychopath in business, in the family, with friends, anywhere.
Lion, Otter, Golden Retriever, Beaver
In 1998 this was developed by Dr. Gary Smalley and Dr. John Trent, in the book, The Treasure Tree.
This uses animals to further expand Myers-Briggs, Ned Herrmann’s Whole Brain, the Galen 4 temperaments, the DISC, and the Keirsey. WHEW.
This appears to be the same thing as DISC, just different names. Here are the categories.
CBT = Cognitive Behavioral Therapy - It's about what you think...
Getting back to the question of “getting counseling”….yes, CBT could be good…in that our thoughts, and past experiences lead to what we choose in a given moment, and what emotions we feel.
Eh…yes, THAT is what we are talking about at this site…change what you believe, think, and choose…which influences how you feel.
Part of “transformation” is...to be conscious. In a given situation, if you feel something...it might be an unconscious response from your early “family programming”. Yes, get in touch with that feeling, and figure out where it is coming from….because...what happens with Empaths is...we feel, then think, then get into a “thought loop” that causes the “hippocampus peptide party”...and we spiral down into negative emotions. Be conscious...what you think influences how you feel.
We give meaning to words.
We think about family beliefs, and how we were raised...CHANGE your thoughts! Make new neural pathways.
What you think changes everything.
Existential theory
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What gets confusing is...when something happens...a life event...how do I respond? By gut feelings? Do I use logic? Intuition? Judgment? It depends on where you are...at work? In the car? With a trusted friend? Buying something? Yes, its great that we have feelings, and they partly make you YOU...but, dont let feelings drive your life….on the other hand, its not all bad to make decisions from a “gut” feeling, a hunch, or what feels right…
How does CBT apply to dealing with the Narc?
-It would be sad for a therapist to not address the “dance” between the Empath and the Narc.
-The counselor may tell you to “not think bad thoughts”…think happy thoughts…it will push out bad thoughts, and you’ll feel better.
-Yes, that is partly true…your destiny is what you focus on. But, how do you DEAL with the narc?
Yes, change your thinking!
When you hear this...
-“You should Forgive and Forget.” Yes, forgive them in your mind, so that what they think of you doesn't control how you feel. Because...THAT is the Narc’s goal...to control your thinking. Consider the source.
-“All you do is dwell on the past.”
Yes, it’s a good fear, to get away from the bear, the shark, the scorpion.
Yes, get away from the Narc if you can, don’t engage.
Yes, don’t think about what the Narc did...but, beware for next time.
Yes, don’t think about the past...think about your great present and future.
-“You are self absorbed.”
Yes, I felt hurt...yes, the Narc WANTS to make you feel bad about you...but, what they think is not true.
Yes, we all make mistakes. Fix it, and move on.
Love people.
-“You need to change.”
Yes, and detach from the Narc.
Yes, and think new thoughts, make new neural pathways.
Yes, and be who I was meant to be.
NO, changing your thinking does NOT make the Narc go away...it changes your “repetitive” thoughts, what memories you access, and helps you be “in the moment” to then deal tactfully with the Narc...have CLASS with your behavior.
-Basically, that people are not bad, but good, STUFF just happens.-It doesn't focus on the past, but the future, and possibility...that is good...but...as an Empath, I need to be aware of the Narc, and tactics they use to drain my energy. Nor does Existential therapy address the codependency issue, and how to over come it.
Positive Psychology
Eh...it focuses on “not what’s wrong with you”, but “what is right with you?”
It’s an interesting approach to psychology...but...appears to assume that “Personality disordered” people don’t exist, nor have any affect on a sensitive person who has been “programmed” by negative people.
-”Learned Optimism” = Joy, Possibility, Creativity, Happiness
Contrasted with,
-”Learned helplessness” = you have no control over what happens in life, your destiny is not determined by genes or social class.
[Yes, partly true...though...you DID learn things while growing up... programming...and that has affected your DNA]
A few other options
DBT = Dialectical Behavior Therapy
EFT - Emotional Freedom Techniques [Meridian tapping]
EMDR = Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing
Christian counseling – They don’t talk about the Narcissist
-I’ve noticed after years of having Christian counselors, they never talked about the narc/sociopath/psycho.
Why?
-From the counselor’s point of view, YOU are the problem, so we need to fix YOU… “bad” people don’t exist. YOU need to forgive.
-Why do Christian counselors avoid talking about the Narc? Because there are no “evil people”!
Yet….there may be some narc/sociopath/psycho’s in church…members, staff….and it’s TABOO to point anyone out.
-So, the Narc is non existent…a non-issue.
Oh.
-Yes, the Christian counselor says “Don’t try to fix other people, just work on yourself”.
Meanwhile, the Narc eats your lunch.
-But, if you don’t know the enemy, and what they keep doing, then you will keep being a chew toy.
-All of the issues are “spiritualized” with…. “Just pray, and let God fight the battle in the heavenly places.”
THAT might help…but, the question is...how can I change my thinking process?
The therapist gives you chemicals
-The counselor doesn’t show you “STRUCTURE” of how all this fits together [the narc/empathy dance], so they prescribe chemicals…
-Yes, this can be good, if your depression is completely CHEMICAL, and not situation/relational.
-Some people are depressed, and don’t know why. These chemicals may help in that case.
-You can be prescribed a chemical, Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor [SSRI], they block the “re-uptake” valve, so that your brain keeps some “happy” chemicals for your emotional balance.
-These “anti depressants” are known as Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft.
-When you have a Narc in your life, you know something is wrong…but what is it? Ah…your brain is “re up-taking” too much serotonin.
If you do find the good counselor
-They understand the Narc, the empathy, vibration, all with a “Christian world view”.
WHERE do you find these counselors?
-Yes, I DO need to go to counseling…yes I DO have a problem…which is…choosing to keep going back to the Narc, their fake love, their lies about me.
-I need to learn how to be independent, and detach.
-The problem IS, not “personality types” but,” personality DISORDERS”….and…how I react to them.
No, don’t go to counseling with the Narc.
-They point to you as the problem….
The Reality
-It’s been show that “personality tests” are merely an evaluation.
-And the “temperaments”…are basically “moods”, depending on your situation.
-It appears that “someone” wants to brainwash you, with “personality types”…models, theories….where the psychopath can run free/rampant…and you just have to “accept them”, because they have a different “style”.
-So, you have 3 types of people…[we will get to later...]
Get a life coach?
-Sure, if you can find one who is educated about personality disorders.
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